So Obama did not win Pennsylvania. Which is, sadly, what I was expecting. I was hoping for a tighter margin, 6 or 7%, but I have to say in 6 weeks Obama closed the gap between him and Hillary by close to 15%. I will take that 10% and turn my hopes to North Carolina, which is looking pretty good, and to Indiana, which will be tricky. There's always Guam, I guess.
I would like to register my exhaustion with politics. I am so, so tired. But I can't stop paying attention, because I know what is at stake, I know what needs to be done. I would also like to register my frustration with Democrats, Super Delegates, and political analysts. Democrats I sort of what to shake: point out how inconsistent and conservative Hillary is, urge them to look at the bigger picture. And the bigger picture is this: We need to get a Democrat in the White House. Who is going to have a better chance at taking the Presidential Election? Obama.
Super Delegates can eat my ass. I ask, again and again, what is so wrong with the popular fucking vote? Why not do what your constituents want? Stop fucking up the democratic process.
From Jim: "What's so aggravating is that the Dems finally have a great, charismatic, intelligent, motivating candidate -- and the Republicans are so, so vulnerable, and have such a vulnerable, unmotivating candidate -- and yet somehow it seems we may STILL find a way to blow it."
Word.
Political analysts are so, so stupid. CNN and MSNBC need to SHUT UP. Last night they called the election when 1% of the results were in. 1%! That is nothing short of retarded. Now you know why I watch BBC World News.
Confidential to Krista: I sort of feel bad for you because you're the only über conservative in the middle of a whole gang of über liberals. I don't want you to feel like we are attacking you. Because we're not. We just don't understand. Ok, I shouldn't speak for the group. I don't understand. Conservative values elude me. And last night, I was trying, very hard, to understand. And I don't and probably never will. But man, are you good for debate.
I would like to register my exhaustion with politics. I am so, so tired. But I can't stop paying attention, because I know what is at stake, I know what needs to be done. I would also like to register my frustration with Democrats, Super Delegates, and political analysts. Democrats I sort of what to shake: point out how inconsistent and conservative Hillary is, urge them to look at the bigger picture. And the bigger picture is this: We need to get a Democrat in the White House. Who is going to have a better chance at taking the Presidential Election? Obama.
Super Delegates can eat my ass. I ask, again and again, what is so wrong with the popular fucking vote? Why not do what your constituents want? Stop fucking up the democratic process.
From Jim: "What's so aggravating is that the Dems finally have a great, charismatic, intelligent, motivating candidate -- and the Republicans are so, so vulnerable, and have such a vulnerable, unmotivating candidate -- and yet somehow it seems we may STILL find a way to blow it."
Word.
Political analysts are so, so stupid. CNN and MSNBC need to SHUT UP. Last night they called the election when 1% of the results were in. 1%! That is nothing short of retarded. Now you know why I watch BBC World News.
Confidential to Krista: I sort of feel bad for you because you're the only über conservative in the middle of a whole gang of über liberals. I don't want you to feel like we are attacking you. Because we're not. We just don't understand. Ok, I shouldn't speak for the group. I don't understand. Conservative values elude me. And last night, I was trying, very hard, to understand. And I don't and probably never will. But man, are you good for debate.
Labels: Liberal Soapboxin'
10 Comments:
OK. Because you didn't leave a name or use a blogger ID, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I don't know you in real life or even via the internet. Leading me to further believe you are trolling my blog in order to get a response out of me. Which I am giving you in the form of deleting your comment.
Because, seriously. That had to be one of the most patronizing, sexist, condescending things I've ever read. Not to mention nonsensical. People like you are the ones who give honest conservatives like my friend Krista a bad name.
"You'll learn," and "As you get better educated," "You want someone to take care of you. If not a man, then the government." Nothing short of offensive and also WRONG. Obviously you know nothing about me or my beliefs.
When you can post giving me logical arguments based on facts without resorting to talking down to me like I'm 5 or like I don't have a brain in my head simply because I happen to possess a uterus, then and only then will I converse with you on politics.
Hey Katie and all of Katie's blog-readers...just to clarify, the above comment was *not* me (but in the event the previous commenter is a nice, single conservative male between the ages of 30 and 39...feel free to contact me for a date, will ya?! I'm a cute, single conservative chick!) :)
Ok, all joking aside...
I won't go into too much detail here, because I was working on my own political-type blog entry (before I got sick) and you can feel free to read/comment on it when I post it. But, I do enjoy a lively debate and enjoyed the one we had the other night.
Here's why you don't understand why I have conservative values...you like me and call me your friend. You know me as a smart, level-headed individual who is kind, caring, and would drop everything to help someone in need, right? I have friends of every different race, creed, religion, etc. and we all get along great.
BUT, everyone around you, the media, etc. has bombarded your brain for years with the notion that conservatives are nothing more than greedy, evil, rich, closed-minded bastards who hate anyone with different color skin, different sexual orientation, and different ideas than there own.
I'm not like that. You know that. And if you ever spent time, I mean, really truly spent a good chunk of time with other conservatives, you'd see that was the case more often than not.
Don't feed into the hype that's created by those who profit off of dividing people ideologically. That's what's really going on in this country. And it's WRONG. And everyone is falling for it.
I have to be honest with you. I have yet to meet a conservative who harbors as much raging seething hatred as many of the liberals that I've met. (Present company of liberal friends excluded, of course.)
In fact, half the time, as much as I like debating and I love hearing other people's ideas, I won't even bother because I have better things to do with my time than have my character attacked and be called names and be accused of things I'm not, and 100% of the time, those horrible things have come from the mouths of liberals I used to respect and call "friend."
And, honestly, the other night I did find myself becoming frustrated after a while, not because I wasn't actively convincing you guys to change your position, but because none of you seemed to recognize that there were four of you and one of me and although you all are very passionate about your views, cutting people with an opposing viewpoint off mid-sentence and not sticking to the direct topic at hand does not serve to bridge the gap between sides. That's why I had to point out and say, "Hey, are you going to let me finish speaking or not? Are you interested in hearing my response to your question?"
(Plus, if you happened to notice, you all got louder as the debate went on, where I tended to maintain more of a steady, level voice...on purpose out of respect for everyone. Louder doesn't equal a "more valid" opinion. LOL)
If you notice, I patiently waited for each of you to finish what you were saying before I responded. That's how I always converse. AND, I even took a moment and gave what you were saying some thought in an attempt to see where you all were coming from.
I got the distinct feeling that, even when I *did* get to say a full response, you all were too busy thinking of what you were going to say next to try and "stump me" with percentages and extreme "what-if" scenarios that you weren't really listening to what I was saying. (Or, that's when someone would point out something funny on the TV and distract everyone's attention, right when I was about to speak...NOT appreciated.) I could see it in all of your eyes. I can tell when people are really listening and connecting and when they're not. The only one who did stop and give some thought was Haven, actually, later on in the debate.
That's the problem with debate in this country. Nobody listens to each other because they're all afraid of possibly being wrong, so they spend their time making sure the other side who might possibly prove them wrong isn't heard. It's the result of a really annoying innate human insecurity.
I'm not afraid of being wrong. Are you?
I'd love to actually get a debate group together if anyone's interested. BUT, I'd set definite time-limits and ground rules. But I think it would be fun and educational...what do you think, you interested?
Awww, you deleted that anonymous comment. You really shouldn't have. (I needed a date! LOL j/k) You have both sides presented and even if you think the other poster is wrong, then...oh, well. No harm done. His comment isn't going to change your mind. And his comment is not representative of who *I* am even though we stand on the same side politically, though thank you for standing up for me.
That was my point about debate and shutting down the other side, even if you don't agree. That's doing exactly what people have accused conservatives of doing. The only way to stop behavior like that and make changes is to stop your own and change your own.
That was the point I was trying to make to Renee the other night when I told her to quit her job. I wasn't trying to be mean. I wasn't trying to be a smartass. I was making a statement about hypocrisy. If people feel that strongly about an issue, a problem, etc. then THEY PERSONALLY must be willing to make the sacrifices and make the hard decisions and do what's necessary to bring about major positive change.
Very few people are willing. And it takes a hell of a lot more than pushing a little button in a voting booth.
You want to save the environment, right? You want to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, right? Are *you* yourself willing to give up your car and ride a bike to work instead in order to "put your money where your mouth is?"
That's the point I was trying to make the other night. All change starts with the individual, regardless of whether or not you see it as making a major impact or not.
This is the point the anonymous poster was trying to make: the Democrats are relying on Obama to swoop in and save the day. And I'll tell you right now, that's not going to happen because WE as individuals making up a society are NOT willing to make the changes needed in our personal lives to see that through. We'd rather rely on a smiling face on the TV to tell us "don't worry, I'll fix it all!" to give us that warm and fuzzy feeling. And that's not a conservative issue and it's not a liberal issue...that's a HUMAN issue.
If you believe that strongly in Obama, go volunteer on his campaign. Go out and talk to people about your views. But don't shut them down the instant they have what you see as an "offensive" viewpoint. You're a bigger person that that, you know.
I've volunteered on political campaigns before. It's fun and you get to meet fabulous and passionate new people. And besides, it *is* on your 101 in 1001 to-do list. :-P
If you don't like the practices of your company, quit. if you don't like the political practices in your community, say something. Write letters. Do the hard stuff. Trust me, it's worth it and a valuable experience in more ways than one.
But when people complain just for the sake of complaining and point out the flaws in others but are not willing to live in a way that represents their own beliefs and ideology, well, that's nothing more than hypocrisy, plain and simple.
And that is why this country, being full of hypocrites who are afraid of doing what's hard or inconveniencing themselves for the sake of the greater good, will fail.
It's just easier, I guess, to chant cute little campaign slogans and push a little button in a voting booth...
This is why I hate a two-party system (and I think, Krista, you will back me up in this). Someone automatically judges Katie's character based on her support of Obama because she's a liberal, and we, in turn, automatically judge that person because they are a conservative. Two parties cannot effectively provide a good cross-section of the public at large, and the general public will not be represented as a whole. It's called "politics" for a reason.
At any rate, what comes down to is regardless of your political leanings, Krista makes a point. It's up to us to make change. That's why I'm excited about these upcoming elections. We need America to feel confident in a democratic system; that individuals can create an impact.
I think that's why people cling to Obama's platform. Granted, I feel like most of his most vocal fan base is jumping on to this year's "Snakes on a Plane" bandwagon, but he gives young voters hope in the future or drive to change it (depending on how you feel). Like him; hate him. I don't think anyone is indifferent and that is what has killed the democratic system from the 80s to today--indifference. It's great to have these kinds of discussions again and believe that some good will come out of it.
I hope I didn't ramble too much.
Wow. My blog has become political central!
OK, Krista:
I'm not like that. You know that. And if you ever spent time, I mean, really truly spent a good chunk of time with other conservatives, you'd see that was the case more often than not.
For starters (and I can't believe I haven't told you this already), my entire family and many of my friends from home in Lebanon are conservatives. I spent much of my life with them, I spent part of my life as a conservative. When I turned 18 and registered to vote, I registered as a Republican. And then one day I realized, "Why am I supporting polictions who implement XYZ when I don't think XYZ works, in fact, I sort of think XYZ sucks."
What I don't get, what eludes me, is how others, such as yourself, don't see that after 8 years of conservative power in America how poorly we're doing. Very poorly. I can't think of a single thing that has gone well since Republicans took power. We are in a recession. Gas prices are skyrocketing. We still haven't caught Osma Bin Laden. There is no end in sight to the Iraq War, it was proven that President Bush lied about Iraq something like 935 times. We have lost our foreign allies and made more enemies. Poverty and foreclosures are at an all time high. The environment is in a very precarious state and consistently Republican officials have voted against legislation designed to help protect it. Republican legislation has given tax breaks to the super rich, leaving the middle class to sink further into debt. And what I don't get is how people, such as yourself, such as my parents, such as my childhood friends don't see how the Republican politicians who "uphold" your conservative ideals, are not helping you or our country.
Certain issues, such as abortion, are always going to be a divided line. And for issues such as that, I could see how you would want to vote Republican. But for everything else...you got me. I don't get it, and probably never will.
BUT, everyone around you, the media, etc. has bombarded your brain for years with the notion that conservatives are nothing more than greedy, evil, rich, closed-minded bastards who hate anyone with different color skin, different sexual orientation, and different ideas than there own.
Please don't throw out the liberal media argument. That's sort of insulting because you know how much Renee, Mike, Haven, and I read, study, how smart we are. We are not brainwashed by a "liberal media." You know we can think for ourselves. To suggest that our perceptions are marred by CNN (who, if you recall, we were all slagging on Tuesday night) is sort of silly. For that matter, the media is just as happy to paint all Democrats as socialist cry babies.
And, honestly, the other night I did find myself becoming frustrated after a while, not because I wasn't actively convincing you guys to change your position, but because none of you seemed to recognize that there were four of you and one of me...
Which, I recognized, and it's why I posted that note to you up there.
...and although you all are very passionate about your views, cutting people with an opposing viewpoint off mid-sentence and not sticking to the direct topic at hand does not serve to bridge the gap between sides. That's why I had to point out and say, "Hey, are you going to let me finish speaking or not? Are you interested in hearing my response to your question?"
(Plus, if you happened to notice, you all got louder as the debate went on, where I tended to maintain more of a steady, level voice...on purpose out of respect for everyone. Louder doesn't equal a "more valid" opinion. LOL)
Krista, you know us. We're always loud and talking all over each other, no matter if we're discussing politics, music, playing Never Have I Ever, or trying to talk about whose outfit is better on Project Runway. Or whatever.
I got the distinct feeling that, even when I *did* get to say a full response, you all were too busy thinking of what you were going to say next to try and "stump me" with percentages and extreme "what-if" scenarios that you weren't really listening to what I was saying. (Or, that's when someone would point out something funny on the TV and distract everyone's attention, right when I was about to speak...NOT appreciated.) I could see it in all of your eyes. I can tell when people are really listening and connecting and when they're not. The only one who did stop and give some thought was Haven, actually, later on in the debate.
I want you to know that I was really listening to you, and not just waiting for my turn to talk. I really do want to know why you support this party. It's why I turned to you in the first place and said, "I don't understand why you're conservative."
I'm not afraid of being wrong. Are you?
Not at all. I said it 8 years ago. "I was wrong." And then I registered as a Democrat.
I'd love to actually get a debate group together if anyone's interested.
There's actually something like that in this area. It's called Toastmasters or something. It meets at Kildare's. I'll talk to you about it later.
That was my point about debate and shutting down the other side, even if you don't agree.
I shut him down because he was patronizing and sexist, not because of his viewpoints. I invite him to respond to me again, this time in a manner that doesn't treat me like I'm vapid child.
All change starts with the individual, regardless of whether or not you see it as making a major impact or not.
Agreed. It's why I recycle, donate my money to alternative energy studies, take public transportation whenever possible.
This is the point the anonymous poster was trying to make: the Democrats are relying on Obama to swoop in and save the day. And I'll tell you right now, that's not going to happen because WE as individuals making up a society are NOT willing to make the changes needed in our personal lives to see that through. We'd rather rely on a smiling face on the TV to tell us "don't worry, I'll fix it all!" to give us that warm and fuzzy feeling. And that's not a conservative issue and it's not a liberal issue...that's a HUMAN issue.
This is the argument my father and I had the other night. And I agree that Obama isn't the end all be all to our problems. I don't think any single politician is. I mean, look how excited we were when Democrats took control of Congress. And they've done fuck all since then. But here's the thing: I look at all the damage, all the negative things that have happened in the past 8 years and then I think about all the positive possibilities for the the future. And Obama, I think, is my best option for our country achieving those. And really, Krista, would you rather me vote for Hillary?
If you believe that strongly in Obama, go volunteer on his campaign.
Actually, I'm ahead of you on this one. I signed up to volunteer for Obama's campaign months ago. However, logistically, with classes I've been unable to much except some canvassing. But I haven't crossed it off my list because I don't feel like I've done enough to qualify. I mean handing out some fliers = Meh.
But don't shut them down the instant they have what you see as an "offensive" viewpoint.
Again, I shut that guy down, because he was personally offensive to me in a fashion that I did not appreciate. Not because of his conservative viewpoints, which yes, in a way, are offensive, I guess. If it had been you that posted that comment, I would have still deleted it, but argued about it with you later.
Phew. Anyone else want to jump in here?
Yeah, Katie, your blog is on fire! :) Go you!
I agree with Renee in part with the two-party system. The problem is, both parties are basically the same now. They make a whole bunch of promises to get elected and then they sit around and do nothing. And you should be mad at your party for doing that. The Democrats lied to you as much as the Republicans have lied to me.
Regarding parties, let me clarify something here. I consider myself a conservative. But more and more, I refuse to consider myself a Republican. If the Republican party ever returns to its conservative roots, than that will change. But until then, I've been making sure to voice my displeasure to the RNC every chance I get. There is a difference. This is why I am not a McCain fan. He is a Republican, but he is not proven to me yet that he is a true conservative. Thus, we also did not have 8 years of "conservative" power, we had 8 years of "Republican" power. Bush and his administration do hold some conservative beliefs that I agree with, but no one got a chance to see much of it work because there was so much opposition and in-fighting for power and control. This wasn't as bad as the Reagan years and maybe that's why Reagan was more successful during his 8 year term.
As far as how poorly we're doing...do you know what happens when other countries around us see the kind of nasty in-fighting that we have? They view us as weak. And they will take advantage of that weakness.
We are in a recession. We have also become a country that doesn't produce anything more than cheap crappy entertainment any more. We're a society of consumers. And this will be why our economy is headed for collapse. The government has spent too much and is not the "smaller government" that I had in mind. Gas prices are skyrocketing and maybe wouldn't be if we would have been spending time and money drilling for oil in our own country and building more refineries as we should have been all along. Plus, the world is watching and it is only a matter of time before they put the final nail in the coffin in that area. Just watch. No, we haven't caught Bin Laden, but have we experienced any more terrorist attacks on our soil since 9/11? No. Please take a moment to thank our government for that. It doesn't mean attempts haven't been tried, because they have...but they were thwarted by our own. So yes, I consider that a big win. I don't care about allies and enemies, either. The only allies I want for this country are those who are strong enough to stand up and do what's right in the face of shrill opposition and who do what's right for their own people as well. And I don't want this country coddling bully nations with dictators as leaders. No, thank you.
Foreclosures aren't Bush's fault. People in this country have developed a selfish immediate-gratification attitude which has caused them to spend beyond their means. Nobody put guns to their heads and forced them to make poor choices on their loans. The banks got greedy and handed out loans to people they shouldn't have. Screw 'em all and let them learn their lesson. Painful to watch, but I live within my means. So should they. Tough. I believe our government should protect us from other nations, but they should not be called upon to protect us from ourselves.
The war, well we could go back and forth on that for weeks and not change each other's opinions. I agree that it has turned into a mess but my version of why is different than yours.
But conservative values encompass a lot more than those issues. What other "conservative values" are you talking about? Smaller government? An emphasis on personal responsibility? Privatized health care and social security? Lower taxes? Eliminating spending on programs that don't work? Get rid of the hold that special interest groups have on our political system? Stricter penalties for crime? Upholding the Constitution? Litigation reform? 2nd Amendment rights? Build, rather than dismantle our military? Freedom of religion in stead of freedom from religion? The belief that ideas and not money solve problems? The emphasis on the importance of family? I don't see the problem in any of those. Those are the values I hold, among others.
And no, I didn't know that you grew up around Republicans...maybe you're just trying to break away and rebel? LOL Just kidding!
But seriously, good for you that you didn't blindly lead the pack and that you made up your own mind. I may not agree with your position, but I admire you for doing your own research and finding what works best for you.
That's sort of insulting because you know how much Renee, Mike, Haven, and I read, study, how smart we are.
I do know this, which is why I pointed out how wrong it is to name-call and point out physical flaws in people with opposing viewpoints. Plus, one of the first things you said to me when I came over was, "I don't know how you can have a uterus and be a Republican at the same time! Republicans are rich greedy old white men (I'm paraphrasing here, but that was the gist) which, although I cracked up at that, it also told me that that was a big chunk of your opinion on Republicans/conservatives, but it was a little insulting to insinuate that I'm screwing over my own gender by my voting preference or that I'm not as much of a woman or whatever. Just sayin'. Two sides, same coin.
I want you to know that I was really listening to you, and not just waiting for my turn to talk. I really do want to know why you support this party. It's why I turned to you in the first place and said, "I don't understand why you're conservative."
I appreciate that. And I appreciate you asking and wanting to know. And I was equally as interested in finding out your beliefs and the reasoning behind your choice of party. :)
And yes, please let me know about Toastmasters...as long as it's not some sort of trick where they hold Republican pig roasts and I'm the next on the menu... :-P
I'm glad to see that you do actively make life choices based on your views like recycling, donating, and handing out flyers (which is important too, don't write it off.) But yes, I would have rather you voted for Hillary...because I think McCain could totally beat her in November! Mwahahaha...just kidding.
I just thought of something...wouldn't it be funny if the anonymous poster was your dad? I mean, you two have been debating a lot, right? He wrote in such a way that sounded like he was older, possibly a parent...
Crap. If that really was your his comment, that means I totally just hit on your dad. Sorry!
We did have at least two terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11.
One was the Anthrax mailings that barely get mentioned anymore but I vividly remember because I had to deal with the returned mail in my office.
The second was the Beltway Sniper, because one of the four charges he was convicted of was terrorism.
I'm talking large scale Bin Laden-lead attacks, if you could not deduce that from what I wrote.
FYI: The anthrax investigation has yet to produce leads or motives and happened so soon after 9/11, I don't really put that in the same category.
And yes, the Beltway Sniper was an Islamic extremist and was shooting in the name of Allah, but as far as I know, it wasn't an organized terrorist attack by Bin Laden...my point then being, specifically, our government, FBI, CIA, military, etc. have been extremely successful at preventing further large-scale terrorist attacks on our soil even though we have not found Bin Laden.
THAT was my point.
I'm talking about something equivalent to the scale of the Madrid train bombings and you know that.
No I don't know that. What I know is what you said. "but have we experienced any more terrorist attacks on our soil since 9/11? No. Please take a moment to thank our government for that."
So if it's not a large explosion, isn't caused by foreigners, and doesn't kill at least fifty people, it doesn't count?
It's like saying you completely stopped doing drugs, but you keep smoking pot and abusing pain pills while giving up heroin and coke.
Let's explore that further. First WTC bombing, doesn't count. Only six people died, towers still stood. Oklahoma City, doesn't count. Americans did it. Olympic Park in Atlanta, doesn't count. No one died and it was done by an American.
The anthrax letters were what started the entire discussion in this country about WMD's and attacking Iraq. Doesn't matter who sent them. They count.
And from what you're saying, the words you used, the type of attack you're talking about, this large scale bin-Laden type, has only happened once to us in our nation's history. 9/11. So you want me to thank this government for not letting that which has only ever happened on their watch happen again?
Ok, I don't mean to hijack Katie's blog for this, but I'm ending this thread now.
So if it's not a large explosion, isn't caused by foreigners, and doesn't kill at least fifty people, it doesn't count?
Re-read what I wrote. Everyone seems to assume that if we catch Bin Laden, then "woohoo!" no more terrorism. I'm saying that we haven't captured Bin Laden but there haven't been any more Bin Laden organized attacks and many have been reported as having been foiled so yes, let's actually give thanks where thanks is due. Yes, catching Bin Laden would be helpful, especially where morale is concerned, and I'm not saying to shake Bush's hand personally but there are many great men and women who put their lives on the line every day who prevent more major attacks from happening. It's just a shame those aren't the stories that make headlines.
And the anthrax letter are not what started the discussion about Iraq and WMDs. Saddam thumbing his nose at the U.N. inspectors pretty much sealed the deal on that one. Plus, if you recall, Clinton lobbed a couple of missiles over there during his term...granted those turned out to be aspirin factories, but still...anthrax did not "start the entire discussion."
Listen, I'm not going to debate you. You ignored the entirety of my post and are trying to nit-pick me into a corner. And there's nothing you can say to change my mind anyway.
And, since I'm signed into a Krav Maga class with you for the next six months, I am no longer going to debate you in politics as I know how hard you kick. We're ending the debate now.
Sorry, Katie.
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